April, 2003

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Movie Woman grilled about You Can Count on Me 

The following is an interview we did with an applicant interested in becoming the Movie Woman for the Goliard. By way of testing to see if she would be compatible with the rest of the staff we decided to pick one film that we were familiar with and see how she broke it down.

TG - So you want to be the Movie Woman?

TMW - Not really no. I don't see that many films for one thing and if I do it is usually something I hope the children will like. I can't sit in front of the television all day.

TG - But you did see You Can Count on Me recently is that right?

TMW - Yes that's true.

TG - Well what did you think?

TMW - I thought it was pretty depressing. Her talking with the minister about the affair was amusing, but her sleeping with her jerk of a boss whose wife was pregnant was pretty boneheaded. I thought her brother was a fuck-up, and taking an 8 year old to see his dad and expecting the kid to act like "a man" was beyond stupid. If I want to hear about people doing stupid things I could talk more with my cousins. I'm going to have a Hamlet weekend, I have Kenneth Branaugh's version, and then to cheer things up I'll try Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead. 

TG - What are you a sailor? What's with the F - bomb?

TMW - I get to have grown up talk once in awhile.

TG - So you didn't like You Can Count on Me? But the rest of the staff loved it and thought Laura Linney was brilliant. She is one of our favorite actresses.

TMW - Figures.

TG - Don't you mean "figures you fuckers"?

TMW - Come on.

TG - Anyway, you didn't like it? This distresses us. Maybe it all depends on what phase of life you are personally in at the time of viewing. We totally disagree obviously and found all characters to be interesting, believable and uplifting and the idea that someone is a "fuck up" just because they don't act in the ways society deems responsible and have trouble fitting in and problems subscribing to all the things the people who work in banks and dentists office tell them they should is refreshing beyond words. So many parents shield kids and think that 8 year olds don't know what's going on and will believe what they say about their screw up estranged parents when everything else around them screams out otherwise. We think that's what's depressing.  Obviously the brother just realized (albeit a bit irresponsibly and spur of the moment) that the child was a special one and deserved to be treated as an adult for a week or two instead of ridiculously shielded from a non reality. People sleep with their bosses and do stupid things all the time the point is what type of person are you and what cards has life dealt you thus far? The actions alone don't always answer this question and being on the right side of the 20/80 equation doesn't have anything to do with whether you fit in at the bank or not or sleep with your boss or not or are a drifter or not. We thought the dichotomy of the sister trying to be responsible and failing, juxtaposed with the brother's floundering but staying true to his own ideals despite what he kept running into in life was incredibly poignant. It's rare that you see a movie about real non-heroic people struggling with real stuff. We walked around uplifted for days after seeing it just because it reaffirmed our belief in the ability of film to not just be sugar coated garbage or he man explosions or comic book fantasy but an actual story in an actual town with actual people that you might come across and sympathize with for real reasons. And if you didn't like that movie then In the Bedroom is another one you won't like. It has a similar feel but takes a few much more depressing and violent turns. The real people in a real town thing is even stronger though. Marisa Tomei is also excellent in a supporting role.

TMW - It was more that the brother acted without thinking past step 1. The kid was curious about his dad, but wasn't ready to do anything about it. He hadn't thought about what he wanted to know - and then they showed up with no warning. Plus the brother had just spent the week telling him that his dad wasn't all that great. Instead of the kid thinking about what he would ask they just descended upon this unsuspecting guy, whose girlfriend is now all pissed off because she didn't know he had a kid, and everyone ends up wondering what to do. The obvious answer is leave, but the brother either had some great reunion in mind or just wanted to start a fight with Rudy senior. That's great, take your eight year old nephew to see his dad for the first time, start a fight and get arrested. Do you think after that introduction that the kid will ever be able to or want to see his dad again? Maybe if he'd left and said maybe you can call your son some time he would have opened the door for the two, but he slammed it shut and locked it tight. Eight is really pretty young. I did like when the sister told her boss he couldn't fire her because they had slept together.

TG - But in life almost nobody thinks past step one. (our president for example) Some people are shit heels and some peoples dad's are shit heels (our president for example) and there's nothing you can do about it and it's best that a kid realizes it as soon as possible so he will be better able to choose the kind of people he wants to know and associate with as he battles his way through an unpredictable life. We think the bond between the brother and his nephew is far more important than his relationship with the biological trailer park dad and his slatternly girlfriend, a relationship which is obviously going nowhere and never will. Show the kid some spunk and some spontaneity and some zest for life. Show him that just because you are related to people by blood doesn't necessarily mean you have anything in common with them or respect them or even need to know them. You mentioned your much maligned cousins. The question is who in the movie had a good heart? The brother did. The kid did. And the sister did. And good hearts should and sometimes do prevail. The brother may have been terrible at protocol and short tempered and quick to call bullshit on anything that annoyed him and quick to run away but I think the nephew got a hell of a lot more out of his two week stay than he would've had someone orchestrated a "proper" visit to his real father's shabby trailer. We think a good lesson in life for a child like that is that the type of person his father is deserves to be punched in the face even if it means getting arrested. Have some perspective. Next thing we'll hear out of you is "What? Taking a eight year old child to a bar? That is completely irresponsible. He might see people drinking? It's much better to make sure that he never goes anywhere where adults are acting like they really do when kids aren't around that way he will never grow up to do anything as bad as hanging out in a bar and playing pool with his friends". Or "you can't take a young boy to a construction site, he might step on a nail. Keep him home watching construction shows on TV".

TMW - If the brother had such a good heart why did he immediately assume that his nephew ratted on him, and refuse to believe him when he denied it? The brother always assumed everyone was unreasonably picking on him. He thought about what he wanted and looked for problems in his sister's and nephew's life while assuming his life was just fine and everyone was picking on him. Why did he take his nephew to see Rudy Sr? To prove that he was a shitheel? The nephew already believed his uncle on that one. The kid is only eight, if wants to pretend in his homework that his dad is a superhero that shouldn't be a problem, because he doesn't really believe it. Taking his nephew to the construction site was fine, not telling his sister or the baby sitter first was horribly irresponsible and could have cost his sister her job right there. You have no idea how scary it is when your child is supposed to be one place and isn't.

And back to why did he take the kid to see his dad? To prove that his dad was a jerk and the uncle is a nice guy trying to do a nice thing? Most eight year olds don't need anyone to prove to them that their dad is a jerk if he is. I've watched friends kids go through a divorce - they knew dad was a jerk and didn't give a rats ass about them - and it hurt them terribly. They didn't need anyone to rub their face in it. Stuff like that can wait until the kid is old enough to want to face it and to know what questions they'd like answered.

And after uncle and sister have a fight about it what happens? Uncle runs away. Such a great guy who wanted to have a positive impact on his nephew's life, and he's running away. His sister was willing to let it go, but he's taking off and who knows when he'll back? Christmas? I wouldn't count on it.

TG - But maybe certain people just don't fit in and shouldn't have to pretend they do. You can still have a good heart and be a troubled irresponsible restless person. There are far too few people that are interesting to know and provide alternative view points and shake up what is supposed to be traditional society. Admittedly if a preacher is explaining god's ways to you when children are present it is probably not a good time to stand up and say "I just can't listen to this horseshit right now" and most of us wouldn't do it but some of us would and we say good. The brother treated the boy as his equal and talked to him like an adult instead of a child and didn't try to hide anything from him. You get the bad with the good when you do that. If you thought the brother thought his life was fine you didn't see the same film we did. And contrary to what many parents seem to think not everything revolves around what is perfect for children and adults pretending everything is perfect when it isn't proves even more devastating when it all falls apart. Giving kids glimpses of the more manic sides of life isn't the end of the world as long as it is balanced with direct communication. The mother wasn't saying anything about the father to her son at all and leaving him to wonder on his own. And we do not buy into the living in fear that someone has perpetually kidnapped your child, (although it may be unavoidable within a person's psyche given the constant media attention given to the subject), is necessarily good for the child. A mother should be able to sacrifice a little of her worry once in awhile for a valuable lesson learned. We're also not saying that the brother is not irresponsible. But his coming to town is an invaluable experience for the kid. Yes, he forgets to meet the boy after school. Yes, he blunders through life borrowing and drifting. Yes, it is irresponsible for him to take him to the construction site and pool hall. But when Rudy gets to pound nails himself and he gets lifted up to the table, takes a shot and sinks the ball, this is exactly what kids need! The uncle isn't trying to prove he's a nice guy he is just acting on impulse. The child didn't have a relationship with his real father and wasn't going to so why not get the speculation over with and move on. You can have a good heart and go away. Anyone who carries on as if most people act with children's best interests in mind is doing a disservice to children. Most people are selfish and don't have good hearts and kids should know that. Then they can decide who they want to count on on their own.

Of course we have no kids, have done a fair amount of drifting, and have been considered irresponsible more than once.

TMW - He doesn't forget to meet the boy after school, he blows him off because he thinks the kid ratted on him.

And it's not living in perpetual fear of kidnapping, its also the fear that your child is sitting at the bus stop alone and scared and doesn't know what to do. If a neighbor had picked him up they would call.

Kids learn as much from the silences as they do from the words. My kids know that there is something wrong with their grandfather, they don't need someone to tell them that he's an irresponsible alcoholic that has drunk himself out of jobs, his marriage, into the pokey for DWI at least 3 times, and I don't need some well meaning person who doesn't have kids thinking that it was time they knew. When they are old enough to ask I will answer truthfully, when they are old enough to understand I will volunteer information, but I don't need to try to explain something they aren't ready to understand. The kid could use a male figure in his life, but two weeks of his uncle teaching him to use a hammer and shoot pool wont carry him long. Especially if it will be another two years before he comes to visit again.

Eight is not equal to 25 or however old uncle was supposed to be. Kids figure out a lot and sometimes don't ask questions because they've already figured out the answers.

TG - Nobody is claiming that the uncle makes an ideal parent or acted in a responsible way with the best interests of the child foremost in his mind but who'd want to see a movie about that anyway. When we read the words "total fuck up" we're way more likely to think of over protective parents that prop their kids in front of cartoons all day and drag them off to church and feed them fast food and tell them that birds are dirty and that they can't go camping because the woods are scary and they can't play real sports because they might get hurt and lets all go to Disneyland for two days a year instead. If you are objecting to the movie because, as a mother, you wouldn't want the uncle around your kids because you wouldn't be able to control everything out of his mouth and he might upset them with something you weren't ready for them to hear than that is understandable. And if you believe you are not the type of person who would sleep with your boss because you try to do things by the book and chose the perfect person in the first place and think that other people should have as well than it is your prerogative to condemn those actions in others. You certainly shouldn't have to be exposed to it within your entertainment if you don't want to and don't think it rings true to any people you might want to know except for those that live in trailers which you chose to disassociate with anyway. We guess we've just been around a lot of single parents with kids and seen how tough it is to get them some quality time with interesting people and how hungry they are for mature treatment and appreciated the angle the film chose to examine. Two siblings orphaned at a young age the elder girl feeling she needed to be responsible and the boy never really figuring out how to deal with people properly and always disappointing her. Obviously if you have an ideal family situation it might depress you to view others that don't, and you might feel for a child that isn't having a perfect upbringing with a strong male example around not to mention having to come to terms with the fact that his real dad is an idiot.

We'll keep it in mind when recommending films in the future. We are aware that at certain times in your life you aren't as appreciative of genres of literature either given your child/socio/relationshipal status. We don't know if you remember the Big Chill but we had to fire a girl once because she hated the movie based solely on the fact that Glenn Close allowed her husband to sleep with her friend. We decided that wasn't the type of person we wanted to have around. She later was institutionalized.

TMW - It's not about ideal and perfect. There are lines that probably shouldn't be crossed. I'm not condemning, I just think she was too smart to do it. She slept with a married man, whose wife was pregnant, and he was her boss - that just screams "what were you thinking?" If the wife found out, or even if she didn't, what does that do to the marriage? (not her problem, but if that small stuffy town found out it could turn into a problem for her and her son) What does it do to her at work? She's a single parent, I'm thinking she needs a job with benefits. And he was such a jerk! Its not like he was a nice guy or someone she liked at all. Having mature conversations isn't the same as sex. You can never be sure what people will say or do in front of your kids, but what he did when he took the kid to see his father was stepping way out of line. If the kid was 16, even 13, it would have been different. Being a single parent is hard enough without having to explain everything your brother says to the kid, because a lot of what came out of his mouth would probably need some explaining.

And as far as the Big Chill goes I don't think the sleeping with would be nearly as difficult as thinking about the next 16 years of watching someone else raise your husband's child and wondering about the bond it created between the two of them. I think a 20 something would feel differently than a thirty something. Someone who already had kids might see it differently than someone who was at a different stage. Someone who tended to be more suspicious or jealous or controlling - or insecure - would see it differently too.

TG - The whole movie screamed "what are you thinking" yet you or at least we still like the people. You must have all sorts of friends that make stupid decisions left and right even if you don't make them yourself but you still like them and what was good about this movie was how quick we were drawn in to feel like we knew the characters just based of a few well done scenes. Almost as quickly as you were repulsed by them probably. And by the way always doing the responsible thing for your children is laudable to be sure but for some it completely sacrifices any fun and sucks the life out of them. We bet you've said things at times about how you would just like twenty minute alone of peace and quiet and many parents throw in even more scandalous longings to what they wish for and some even act on them once in awhile without considering whether they might lose their benefits at the bank. It's the human condition and far more interesting than a story about how St. Theresa would have acted in the same situation. Admittedly though we love Laura anyway no matter what she does and the town looked just like the place some of us grew up and the brother was exactly like a bunch of people who work at the Goliard. Did you see Beautiful Girls? That is also a fine film and very similar.....Wait. Check that! Come to think of it, for gods sakes don't see that movie! If we remember right one of the thirty somethings is actually attracted to a 13 year old girl at one point. Can you imagine?

TMW - When I was in Ohio a high school kid (life guard at the Y) asked me out, I told him (as nicely as I could) his parents would have me arrested and it just wasn't a good idea.

TG - That's very responsible of you. Hey, we have an idea. Let's read some other reviews of the film at random to see how you stack up.

"Gives us not so much a slice of reality as a big picture window, polished and gleaming, through which we can see things that matter." -- John Anderson, NEWSDAY

"Fashioned with ... remarkable economy and restraint." -- Bob Aulert, CULTUREVULTURE.NET

"A drama that embraces the ambiguities and contradictions of family ties and human nature in all its irrational glory." -- Sean Axmaker, SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER

"Kenneth Lonegran brings such authentic humanity to this relationship it would be hard to not feel a involved and invested in these people's lives." -- Rob Blackwelder, SPLICEDWIRE

"You Can Count On Me is one of the best movies you're likely to see this year, or any other year, for that matter." -- Liz Braun, JAM! MOVIES

"taps into that special bond between family members that no one can ever fully break." -- Tim Chandler, HOLLYWOOD HOSTEL

"The cast is terrific and true." -- Laura Clifford, REELING REVIEWS

"A remarkable, heartfelt and hilarious journey that will leave you homesick with recognition." -- Duane Dudek, MILWAUKEE JOURNAL SENTINEL

"An ensemble character piece, You Can Count on Me counts on great performances, and Linney, Ruffalo, Culkin and Broderick deliver." -- Annlee Ellingson, BOXOFFICE MAGAZINE

"A marvelous ensemble cast displays great depth of feeling in this character study of a film." -- Michael Elliott, MOVIE PARABLES

"In this modest but brilliant little movie, we find ourselves immersed in life itself." -- Bill Gallo, NEW TIMES

"You won't meet a nicer dysfunctional family all year." -- Harry Guerin, RTE INTERACTIVE (DUBLIN, IRELAND)

"I never thought I would say this, but I am starting to think that Laura Linney may, in fact, be a very good actress." -- Jay Boyar, ORLANDO SENTINEL

"One of the best films in many a moon about the passions siblings call forth from each other." -- Frederic and Mary Ann Brussat, SPIRITUALITY AND HEALTH

"A depressing and shallow movie about a slutty, terrible woman horribly self centered who fails to think for even one second about her son her eight year old son who should be the only and most important thing in the world and her shiftless jackass brother with no redeeming features a complete fuck up who should be taken out and shot for his lack of redeemable qualities and completely stupid behavior. Why can’t he think about the children oh the children. - The Movie Woman – The Goliard"

TMW - I'm not the Movie Woman and now you're just being mean.

TG - Being risible not mean.  We must admit however that we're surprised you are concerned with Broderick's wife who was an obvious stiff unsympathetic bitch who chose to marry a pencil pushing stooge. Most would assume she was better off without him if she did find out and getting what she deserved if she did. If you choose to copulate with small pasty self important office workers you get what you pay for and if you are a decent person who had a momentary lapse in judgment like Laura did you are better off as a single mom sparing your child the undue influence of a weak and pitiful male. If you are of the opinion that any complete family is preferable to any splintered family and as long as a woman can keep the biological father around no matter what a wimpy loser he is that she is better off and so are her children then we are in disagreement once again. Before you say anything else you should know that this conversation has been taped and we have cunningly tricked you into being the Movie Woman after all. Damn men!

TMW -  But I'm not the Movie Woman!

TG - Are.

TMW - Not!

TG - What are you going to review for us next?

TMW - Nothing. I don't have time. I've got too much on my plate as it is without worrying about the future of fictional families. And you know, the trouble is that nobody leaves the movies and thinks about what happens next week when the bosses wife sues for divorce and is now a single mom (do you think she should keep him knowing that when she is feeling her lowest he runs around on her? or do they enter counseling with that nice minister to explore what happened? Do they just ignore it?) The boy who before could fantasize that his father did love him now knows that his dad really doesn't give a rats ass and never wants to see him - yes its the truth, but does he need to know it now? Maybe he could understand it better when he's older, (that it wasn't about him, because kids that age think its about them and that if they were better or different their father would love them) and its not like the news couldn't wait. Some things you just can't take back, maybe the movie should have been another 20 minutes longer so I could see how no harm was done. Then perhaps I would have liked it.

TG - Good job on the review anyway. You're hired.

TMW - I chose not to serve.

TG - Yeah well we'll see.